Hi there, I'm quite new to this forum. Been looking around for good advice on investment. I had friends who are involved in silver and gold and are doing quite well and a number of them in wine investments. I want to try something new/unique so I figured why not wine investments? I recently found out that supply is limited and is diminishing rapidly. How exactly does wine investment work? Do you think I should go on with it???

Hi Peter,

I saw your post on another thread and just like you I am new to this forum. Personally i do think that Wine investment is a good option and there are several options/routes that you can take.

1. Fine Wine Fund - Usually aimed at an experienced or institutional investor. Minimum investment from about £10k upwards and seems to perform on quite a steady basis.

2. Buy fine wines and sell on the market via something like vinfolio, you will obviously have to consider things like your knowledge, storage, paying for advice, fees on selling etc.

3. Invest into a Vineyard - go directly to the source.

I am personally interested in option number 3 mainly because the returns on 1 and 2 can vary plus number 1 seems like quite a cold investment and number 2 is too complicated and i dont have the knowledge.

With number 3 i have seen an offer of a 3 year investment term via a loan agreement with the monies being invested into the expansion of the vineyard.

For a £10k investment I would see capital + 30% FIXED return but at the top end of £100k upwards I would see capital + 39% Fixed return. I know the timeframe for which i will be involved and what my returns are, I dont really need to know too much about wines as my investment is not linked to the production or selling.

The info is on lospandos . com and i would appreciate your feedback as i am almost 90% sure that i am going to go with it. i have put some posts on here but no one has given an opinion on it.

I suppose the big questions would be how would my returns be fixed and what security would I have

I saw a program on TV that said wine was a good invesment because everytime someone opens a bottle of fine wine there is less of it making the remaining ones worth more.

Hi Suisse13,


Thanks for those options, though I still feel a bit confused. I looked at the website you suggested, looks very appealing especially the returns as it ensures profit. But why is the investment period only 3 years? I'm actually looking for investment at the long-run, maybe something I can expand/diversify my portfolio with.
What about en primers? I've heard this term used before by a buddy of mine, what are those?

Yes I think that's whats pushing prices up right? I've read about an auction on a rare wine, and prices were outrageously high

Hi Suisse13, thank you again for your investment tips on wine. I've recently been in contact with a wine portfolio manager on the weekends. I was advised on purchasing en primeur, or as they call it future wines which I still am quite confused about. What do you think?..

Hi Peter,

En primeur is a method of purcasing a wine whilst it is still in the barrel, bascially giving you the chance to get in at an early stage before it is even bottled. It can have its advantages but it is not allways the case the teh wine will gain in value. You would really need to speak with an advisor on this as it quite a specialist thing and you do really need to know your wines.

There is a cracking overview on Wikipedia, just write en primeur into the search and it explains the process, the potential benefits and some external links which could help you with a starting point.

Again, the potential is there for very good returns but a much prefer to know where I stand which is why I have now started the process on the los pandos vineyard investment that has a fixed return in fixed period of time.

Its maybe not as exciting as getting involved in directly buying and selling wine but it is easier and will have the same effect when sat around the dinner table...hahaha

Q. What have you been up to recently?
A. Oh i have just invested into a Spanish Vineyard.

Thanks Suisse13,

The Vineyard investment sounds very catchy but how does it exactly work? The website doesn't say much.
I've been doing a little research on the investment in wine and I came across about a Mr. Robert Parker who rates these wines, and prices of wine(especially the fisrt growths)depends on how he rates them as I read. Apparently he's the most influential wine critic with his 100 point-system, are all wines ratings revolve around his taste? I'm not a wine expert myself but as I mentioned I do have friends involved in this and they are passionate wine lovers and they say a 90-100 point R.P rating may be a good wine, but it may not be for others because everyone has their personal taste.
Are there other wine critics whose ratings count when it comes to wine investment?

Hi Peter,

What your looking at isnt really my bag if I am honest. If you look on the bottom of the wikipedia page (just search en primeur) there are references and external links to other sources which are.

Tom Stevenson, possibly works for Sotherbys!!!
Chris Kissack, the wine doctor .com
John Stimpfig, Wine Investment Guide
Oliver Gearing, wine investment .org

I suggets that this would be a good place to carry on your research.

The Vineyard Investment works by way of a fixed term loan agreement. Your invested capital is tied in for 3 years at a fixed interest rate (depending on the amount invested). Upon completion of the 3 year term your capital is returned + the interest. In my case i have sent an application form in and should get the contracts at some point today. I am quite happy with the dd that I have done so far but I have also been offered to go and visit which could be an option but I going to get my lawyer to have a look at the contract first.

I will let you know how I get on but with the amount of capital that i am looking to put in I would get 36% interest at the end of the 3 years....FIXED.

Hi Peter,

What your looking at isnt really my bag if I am honest. If you look on the bottom of the wikipedia page (just search en primeur) there are references and external links to other sources which are.

Tom Stevenson, possibly works for Sotherbys!!!
Chris Kissack, the wine doctor .com
John Stimpfig, Wine Investment Guide
Oliver Gearing, wine investment .org

I suggets that this would be a good place to carry on your research.

The Vineyard Investment works by way of a fixed term loan agreement. Your invested capital is tied in for 3 years at a fixed interest rate (depending on the amount invested). Upon completion of the 3 year term your capital is returned + the interest. In my case i have sent an application form in and should get the contracts at some point today. I am quite happy with the dd that I have done so far but I have also been offered to go and visit which could be an option but I going to get my lawyer to have a look at the contract first.

I will let you know how I get on but with the amount of capital that i am looking to put in I would get 36% interest at the end of the 3 years....FIXED.

Hi Peter,

I did actually post you a response the other day but it said that it was waiting to be approved by an administrator. You can get other contact info from the links and resources section on the bottom of the wikipedia page (just search en primeur).

I also wrote that i had submitted an application to Los Pandos and received my contracts which i have since been approved by my lawyer.

What you enter into is 3 year contract with your capital and interest being paid at the end of the 3 year period. For the level that i have invested at i will get capital + 36% FIXED.....also my capital is 100€ secure.

Time to crack open a bottle of red, in fact i have a bottle of Aalto (Ribera del Duero) which i can highly recomend.

Freezing cold Friday isnt looking so dull and gloomy after all.

Thanks suisse13,
you've given so many pointers in this thread. Actually investing in a vineyard really interests in many ways specially the fixed returns I'd be achieving if I do get involved. The thing though that I'd don't quite favor of is that I'd be stuck with the 3 year period before I can liquidate my profits. Unlike a buddy of mine who chooses when he wants to take his profits, he did in around 14-18 months. I prefer that sort of investment as it seems to be more flexible. Is there a firm/company that you know of that deals with this sort of investment? Like en primeur?

Hi Peter I have been reading through the thread. I have used a Broker who suggested using a wine that is in consumption, not En Premier as i can look at a 12 month investment to start with. If you want the details of the broker i use let me know or PM me.

Regards

Graham

@ Peter

As i have previously said, what you are looking at isnt really my bag so I why dont you pm GrahamB and have a chat with his broker. Also I have been happy to tie in for the 3 year period as it suits my portfolio. As I know that it is a fixed return I dont need to exit if things are taking a dip after 12 or 18 months so i dont need the flexibility, it might be possible that they would do a yearly option. The guy i spoke with was the sales director and they are very open so if it is of interest then PM me and I will send you their details.

@GrahamB

Hi Graham,

Could you PM me with the website of the broker you use as I would be keen to have a look.

@ GrahamB

Hi GrahamB,

What kind of wines is your broker suggesting? Maybe that's the type of investment I've been looking for, likewise can you please PM me the website of the broker? I'd like to have a look at it too.


@Suisse13

Hi Suisse13,

Investing in a Vineyard sounds interesting but I'm not really sure that's what I'm after. Though I'll keep that option open for me, I appreciate all the info you brought up in this thread. I'll keep the website on bookmark for future reference and forward it to some buddies of mine, I'm sure they'll be interested.

@ Peter

Hi Peter,i cant PM as havent posted enough. The wines he suggests are geared toward the Asian markets as they are the quickest consumers and 6/10 sales are going over to them. You can contact me on my name and then add -b1 to that place where the mail is hot and co.uk and i will pass you on the details.

@ Swiss13

Hi Swiss also please contact me there and likewise i will give his details.


Regards


Graham-b1

@GrahamB

I think that's sensible since the asian market has been very active purchasing these wines. I've read an article about sotheby's auction, which I reckon took place just about a month ago where they sold a chateau lafite that recorded the highest bid for a bottle of wine. Are the brokers you're using based in asia? any particular company you're dealing with?
Alright, I'll send an email you.

Hi GrahamB, I've sent an email to you I hope I got the address correct. Please reply with the link to the website you were referring to, I'd like to have a look at it if you don't mind. Thanks! I have been reading articles lately about safe ways on how to invest in wine, this one gives a couple of pointers on in this investment class, I just wanted to share it with you

Investing in Wine - MoneyWeek

I found it very informative I do hope this article can help you too in your investment, quite useful I should say.
Though, I read some of the comments posted and those too elaborated some good details. I think I got a bonus when one of the links in the comment page allowed me to enter a draw to win a case of chateau lafite. Moments later I received a phone call confirming my contact details in case I win in their lucky draw. Just before ending the call, I did get a chance to ask about en primeur and my other concerns about wine investing. He kindly did explain briefly how their company operates and gave me updates on the wine market. I have the link here, please have a look and tell me what you think....

Fine Wine Promo Premium Liquid Assets

@ Peter

Hi Peter,havent recieved an email as yet, its graham-b1 AT hot mail . co uk

I have seen the moneyweek article very interesting indeed,especially as the Mouton 08 has rocketed in value due to the Chinese artist painting on the label!

contact me and i will give u details of the broker team I use.

Regards

Graham

@ GrahamB

Hi sorry it took me this long to reply. Was pretty busy in the week. I was trying to send you an email through your address but it doesn't send, could you send me an email of the corresponding info instead? Here's my email add: peterwadejohnson@hotmail.com Thank you